John Waters talks ‘Hairspray,’ Johnny Depp, cancel culture

John Waters talks ‘Hairspray,’ Johnny Depp, cancel culture

You can practically hear his pencil-thin mustache over the phone.

“I’ve never been this busy in my entire life,” John Waters says in his distinctive, conspiratorial voice. At age 76, the iconoclastic writer/director of cult-fave films does around 40 spoken-word one-man-shows a year. Those shows must be written, memorized and traveled.

Waters also does a John Waters Summer Camp where the camp counselors include the likes of actor Kathleen Turner, the star of Waters classic “Serial Mom,” and kidnapped-heiress-turned-bank-robber Patty Hearst. He also hosts two punk rock festivals in Oakland, Calif., each year, Mosswood Meltdown and Halloween Meltdown.

The Baltimore native (all Waters’ movies have been set there) has published at least eight books, including five since his last film, 2004 satire “A Dirty Shame,” which starred Tracey Ullman John, Johnny Knoxville, Selma Blair, musician Chris Isaak and frequent Waters collaborator Mink Stole. The subjects of his books range from hitchhiking to art to a commencement speech Waters gave at an institution he’d been expelled from years ago.

“And so even if I never made a movie again, I’m booked for two years already,” Water says. “Which is good. People say, ‘Why don’t you retire and take it easy?’ And it’s because I believe you only get one life, and I’m trying to live it every second as much as I can. And after I stop, I’ll probably drop dead. I’m happy. I like my job so it keeps me interested, and Elton John said to me a long time ago if you stop touring it’s over.”

Actually, Waters is set to make another movie. Village Roadshow Pictures, a production company involved with hits like “The Matrix” series, has optioned Waters’ latest book, 2022 novel “Liarmouth: A Feel Bad Romance,” with Waters set to write and direct. The novel, available via us.macmillan.com, is another bent tale from a wizard of that realm. Waters’ “Liarmouth” antihero is a suitcase-swiping scammer named Marsha Sprinkle.

The illustrated depiction of Sprinkle on the “Liarmouth” book cover looks like movie star Angelina Jolie with a shoulder-length hairdo and Billy Idol snarl. So if Waters had his pick of any actress to portray Marsha Sprinkle in the film adaptation, who would he want? “Oh, I ain’t getting in trouble by saying that yet,” he says, punctuating with a scoff/chuckle. “I’ve gotten a hundred emails in the last two days that said … No. I don’t know who’s playing her yet. I’ve got to write the script first.”

Waters is a writer first and foremost. He’s written every film he’s ever directed. His pen’s produced everything from kitschy 1988 gem “Hairspray,” later adapted to into a hit Broadway musical, to bonkers button-pushers like “Pink Flamingos,” which famously starred the drag queen Divine, a mainstay of Waters’ early “Trash Trilogy” films, and notoriously costarred some dog excrement. (If you don’t know, look it up.) While Waters’ edgier fare may be too out there for the mainstream, it’s hard to imagine the acclaimed work of Gus Van Sant or David Lynch existing without Waters’ trailblazing.

Next, he’s headed to, of all places, Alabama for a weekend crammed with John Waters themed events, dubbed “Other-Rama.” At Huntsville arts center Lowe Mill, there’ a 7:30 p.m. Friday performance of his one-man show “False Negative: An Evening with John Waters.” Admission is free but you need to reserve a seat via checkout.square.site. A 9 p.m. VIP meet-and-greet-ish event is sold out. There’s a 10 p.m. screening of Waters’ 1981 film “Polyester,” complete with scratch and sniff card (tickets $20 via checkout.square.site). Lowe Mill is located at 2211 Seminole Drive.

At University of Alabama in Huntsville, there’s a 3 p.m. “Serial Mom” screening Friday and 5 p.m. Waters Q&A. Both UAH events are free and open to the public at Charger Union Theater, address 4705 Holmes Ave. N.W. A complete list of “Other-Rama” events and more info is at lowemill.art/other-rama.

At his Baltimore home, Waters has two home offices: one he writes in and the other he conducts business in. On a recent afternoon, he’s in the latter when I reach him for a phone interview. Edited excerpts below.

John, do you get nervous at all before performing your one-man show “False Negative” onstage?

John Waters: I’m gonna be nervous because it’s called “False Negative” on your poster, but I’m really doing my new show called “End of the World” that’s even better. You’re going to be one of the first people to ever hear it.

Do I get nervous? This time I’ll be nervous, because it’s one of the first times I’m doing it when I’ve memorized a brand new 70-minute show with no notes. So, yes. [Laughs] I tested it before, at my John Waters Summer Camp where I read it, but I have never yet done it without notes, which I do all my shows without notes.

So that’s the only reason I’d be nervous. Although every time right before you step out, you think, “Suppose I just forget it all?” When you’re in a play an actor whispers the line to you, but when you’re onstage by yourself there’s no safety net.

What’s the biggest difference between your “False Negative” one-man show and this new one “End of the World” then?

It’s brand new. I always update my shows. I update it once a year and the difference, people are sick of talking about COVID. I mean, there’s stuff in there about it, but it’s a new time, right? People are acting now as if it isn’t out there, so it is the end of the world in a way, I think. But ultimately it’s a very optimistic show, even though it starts out jokingly pessimistic.

Since you’re coming here for this weekend of events, is there anything from The South in pop-culture or even specifically about Alabama you’ve always been drawn to, fascinated with, love or even collect?

To me, if you’re talking about The South and you say the word Alabama, it does bring up extreme civil rights and that kind of stuff, in a way.

But everywhere now is the same, and I mean that in a good way. My audience in Alabama and the audience in New York, I’m not sure I could tell the difference anymore. Because my audience everywhere is smart. They get dressed for the event.

But things have changed. Local color has disappeared some because of the internet and everything’s worldwide and everything’s instant. So in some ways, you don’t see as much local color. But my fans are always local color, no matter where they live.

So I guess what I’m seeing about people in Baltimore is Southern too in a way. Things have changed here so much. The one neighborhood that used to be the most racist white neighborhood is now hipster heaven. It’s like Brooklyn, New York. So things can radically change, the good and the bad, and COVID has changed a lot of things for the bad.

I’m jealous of you because you’re not on social media.

Hold on one minute, the doorbell’s ringing. [Water’s says loudly, away from the phone, “Who is it?”] Never mind, it’s a delivery.

Well, I’m personally not on Facebook. I don’t care what you had for lunch. But at the same time there are (unofficial) websites devoted to me, the Dreamland one I cooperate with. I’m on the computer all day. I mean, I write by hand. I get up at 6 a.m. and my workday ends at nine o’clock at night.

I don’t have time really to (be on social media), and I’m not giving away my jokes. All these people on Twitter, why would you give your material away? I would have nothing to come and do in my new show if I gave that away every day. I write books, I do shows, and I write things. That’s what I make for a living. Why would I give it away? I don’t understand it, and people have a lot more time on their hands than I do.

And I think Facebook friendship is lazy friendship. You don’t have to get your hair done. You don’t have to make phone calls. To have real friends and have old friends, it’s work. Good work. You have to stay in contact, you have to go out you have to make plans, you have to put yourself out. You have to check-in on people, not this lazy friendship.

Since some of your work has been joyously offensive, what are your thoughts on being creative in this cancel culture now, whether that’s writing a book or making your next film or next one-man show?

I don’t get canceled because I think I am politically correct in a weird way. I make fun of things I love. But I’ve always made fun of the rules in whatever outside community I live in, not the rules of normal society. I make fun of our own roles. And we need to we need to poke fun at ourselves. That’s the only thing missing from the politically correct generation that’s so self-righteous, is they never make fun of themselves.

You gotta make fun of yourself first, and you don’t make people feel stupid or they won’t listen to you and they’ll go to the other side. It’s the dumbest thing politically ever to make your enemy feel stupid. You make them laugh, they’ll at least listen.

What was the last conversation you had with Divine (who died in 1988) like?

It was the Odeon restaurant in New York. It was the last table on the downtown wall on the right and it was two days after his play opened. He arrived in a limousine, god knows who paid for that, and we just had a great dinner, just remembering you know that this has had just happened, that (‘Hairspray’) had gotten all good reviews. It was a celebratory dinner with just the two of us. And I think we talked about working in the future. You know, it was just a happy, happy night. If you had to pick a last night, it was a great one.

When “Hairspray” the musical was winning all these Tony Awards, for someone who’d been a voice of the underground, what was that experience like? To be accepted in that way?

It was wonderful. It really started with “Polyester” but “Hairspray” (the original film) was accepted and certainly it got mostly all good reviews. It was (rated) PG-13. So, I was involved with “Hairspray” the musical from the very beginning. They wanted me around. I was like a studio executive, giving notes the whole time. I learned so much in that year before it opened, what a Broadway show goes through before it flows and before it actually becomes the show, that then tours for the rest of eternity if you’re lucky. It was like school to me. They did a great job. That night I was on the stage when it won the Tony Award, I’ve always been an optimist but boy that was great feeling. It was the first time my parents could say, “We loved it,” without lying.

Getting ready to chat, I listened to a previous interview with you on YouTube and thought this comment you made was interesting. To paraphrase, in addition to humor, your work is about celebrating the sadness regular people have for not being in show business. I thought that was a brilliant observation.

I think a lot of people wake up and they are so saturated by media culture and everything, but they know that they will never be in that culture. And maybe they should invent a pill for that, that takes away people’s depression of not being in show business.

But the people in business are the most insecure of all, because they’re constantly trying to prove while they’re alive that after they’re dead they’ll be remembered, because something happened when they were young and they didn’t get enough attention.

You’ve cast a lot of musicians in your movies. Debbie Harry, Iggy Pop, (punk musician) Stiv Bators, Sonny Bono, Chris Isaac, Ric Ocasek. Why do you like working with musicians as actors?

Well they always can. I mean, singers with a good persona play themselves every night on stage, so I think they understand acting. When they walk on stage it’s the same rush when a theater actor goes out or anything. So, I think they know how to do it. And most musicians have grown up rebelling in some way because every music that catches you, the first song your parents hate that you like as a child is the soundtrack of your life. So, I think they understand rebellion, and they understand humor and they’ve always worked out great.

Even Johnny Depp was a musician before he was an actor. Your 1990 movie he starred in, “Cry-Baby” was the first film of yours I ever saw. What was cool about working with Johnny Depp back then?

At the time, Johnny Depp was Justin Bieber. He was like a teen idol that he hated being from the show “21 Jump Street” that I was even on. I played a cult leader on it. [Waters has made numerous TV and film appearances over the decades.]

He wanted to break that mold so that’s why he worked with me, and I said, “Well stick with us and we’ll kill that teen thing.” And he made fun of himself by playing a teen idol (in “Cry-Baby”). Same way Traci Lords made fun of herself playing a bad girl (in the role of Wanda Woodward in “Cry-Baby”) after she’d escaped porn. Same way Patty Hearst made fun of her celebrity. Who wants to be a famous kidnap victim? So she made a movie.

I think being in my movies sometimes it’s like rehab, if you want to change your image, because if the movie doesn’t work, the public, they never blame the actors. They like them for taking a chance. They blame me and that’s OK. I built a career on negative reviews.

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